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Outback Joey -- Major Board Revision?

Aug 10 at 12:50:27 AM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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So I've either found a board revision of Outback Joey, or one of these is a fake. I'm shouting it from the mountain tops to try to figure out which is the truth, so I'm sorry if you see this post a million places.



The "double chip board" here is a cart that I bought with a CIB Heartbeat system, so I'm pretty darn sure it is real. It also looks like other Joey boards I've seen, and It looks like the boards from the additional prototype heartbeat games that never hit production.



The single chip board was one I got from ebay.



Both games behave identically as they should: They both boot when you have the heartbeat controller plugged in, and both don't boot if you do not have it plugged in.



The label colors ARE a little different, but the print quality is identical, and they both show signs of significant aging.



What I THINK this is, is a case of the manufacturer having a bunch of prototype boards and choosing to pack them in the early production units to save cost. Then switching to the more standard board when those ran out.



If anyone can confirm or deny this hypothesis, please let me know!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ovzef4...


Aug 10 at 1:43:49 AM
RpgCollector (128)
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(Jeff Oconnell) < Kraid Killer >
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So is the cart you have listed on eBay as 100% authentic, the one you are asking about in this post?

-------------------------
Down to the last 2 Sega Game Gear games I need for the CIB USA. What I will pay for CIB:

Fantastic Dizzy -$300 & Sports Illustrated -$300

Aug 10 at 1:44:23 AM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: RpgCollector

So is the cart you have listed on eBay as 100% authentic, the one you are asking about in this post?

No, its the other one. That one doesnt have the sharp edged label (the thing that I think is the most bewildering). It also doesnt have reprogrammable chips, like the one that is similar to the prototype does.
 


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 01:47 AM by Archon

Aug 10 at 1:52:11 AM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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The more I search the more I'm sure it's a revision. I'm finding more and more examples of both copies in people collections. Johnny Iucci's cart matches the 2 chip, while John Hancock's matches the 1 chip.

Edit: Ugh. I'm trying to talk myself out of keeping them both now -_-

Edit: SO I've found people posting about the cart havingf EPROMS from as far back as 2006 (attached). So I'm feeling pretty good about them both being real. Nobody was faking Outback Joeys in 06.


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 03:06 AM by Archon

Aug 10 at 9:18:30 AM
CZroe (28)
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(Julian Emmett Turner II) < Bowser >
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TheIronToupee has a GBC Sewing Machine Operation Software game pak that's in a legitimate Nintendo-made prototype cartridge and was sold with a boxed Singer Izek sewing machine. They photocopied a color label, glued it over the prototype label, and plugged the open area on the top (usually open for larger EEPROMs to protrude). A similar proto cart is visible in the instructional video cassette, so it's clear that Singer had these when preparing the extra materials (dev carts weren’t limited to Natsume in Japan).

I theorized something similar, where the dev copies used in the process were ultimately bundled with machines and liquidated. Outback Joey was a similar low-production run scenario, so you're probably onto something there.


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 02:03 PM by CZroe

Aug 10 at 10:35:26 AM
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Sign Collector Guy (4)
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(Benjamin ) < Lolo Lord >
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Label doesnt fit. Cart shell looks off. PCB looks newer. Do both labels match up perfectly for font size and position? Alot of things to consider. That surface mount resistor even looks newish.
Can anyone reach out to people who worked for this company that made these? This would be a great game to try and make a convincing repro of because of the value.

Aug 10 at 11:15:59 AM
DefaultGen (23)
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(Tyler Wilkin) < Kraid Killer >
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Originally posted by: Archon

Edit: Ugh. I'm trying to talk myself out of keeping them both now -_-
 

You talked yourself out of that one pretty quick!
 

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Aug 10 at 11:49:03 AM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: Sign Collector Guy

Label doesnt fit. Cart shell looks off. PCB looks newer. Do both labels match up perfectly for font size and position? Alot of things to consider. That surface mount resistor even looks newish.
Can anyone reach out to people who worked for this company that made these? This would be a great game to try and make a convincing repro of because of the value.

See, it DOES actually fit when you compare it to a large number of other known copies of the game. Just that nobody has questioned it, as to my knowledge, this is the first time that two copies have been photographed together. Check this out:

Video Game History Museum Copy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/teu3imi...

Johnny Iuuci's Copy (Forum Member). I know for a fact that this copy hasnt changed hands since 2011: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3q6fimd...

Chilimac's Copy (forum member): https://www.dropbox.com/s/oz0yjo9...

GammaRay's Copy (forum member) with matching board pics: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cr7ibfj...

Speaking to the board, there is GammaRay's copy showing the identical board above...

Here is Johnny's board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nlezz9...

Also, here is the board for a known prototype of an unreleased game for the Heartbeat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv4iu3l...

and this forum post from 2006 taking about the board having EPROMS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4wh6fc...

So, IF that label and/or board are not legit -- someone was faking them as early as 2005, and are in the hands of at least a half dozen collectors who believe them to be real.





 

Originally posted by: DefaultGen
 
Originally posted by: Archon

Edit: Ugh. I'm trying to talk myself out of keeping them both now -_-
 

You talked yourself out of that one pretty quick!
 


 

Heh. No harm in keeping the auction up if someone wants to make me an offer. But upon this discover I AM more motivated to keep them both  


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 11:57 AM by Archon

Aug 10 at 12:12:49 PM
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Sign Collector Guy (4)
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(Benjamin ) < Lolo Lord >
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Originally posted by: Archon
 
Originally posted by: Sign Collector Guy

Label doesnt fit. Cart shell looks off. PCB looks newer. Do both labels match up perfectly for font size and position? Alot of things to consider. That surface mount resistor even looks newish.
Can anyone reach out to people who worked for this company that made these? This would be a great game to try and make a convincing repro of because of the value.

See, it DOES actually fit when you compare it to a large number of other known copies of the game. Just that nobody has questioned it, as to my knowledge, this is the first time that two copies have been photographed together. Check this out:

Video Game History Museum Copy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/teu3imilnuxsiqy/Screenshot_2018081...

Johnny Iuuci's Copy (Forum Member). I know for a fact that this copy hasnt changed hands since 2011: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3q6fimdqye6s6ro/21436.jpeg?dl=0

Chilimac's Copy (forum member): https://www.dropbox.com/s/oz0yjo98w8yhi3z/Screenshot_2018081...

GammaRay's Copy (forum member) with matching board pics: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cr7ibfj9vxjvhk1/Screenshot_2018081...

Speaking to the board, there is GammaRay's copy showing the identical board above...

Here is Johnny's board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3nlezz9w99ta4we/Screenshot_2018081...

Also, here is the board for a known prototype of an unreleased game for the Heartbeat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv4iu3l3f3znlck/4.JPG?dl=0

and this forum post from 2006 taking about the board having EPROMS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4wh6fcsh4ymku2/21494.jpeg?dl=0

So, IF that label and/or board are not legit -- someone was faking them as early as 2005, and are in the hands of at least a half dozen collectors who believe them to be real.





 
Originally posted by: DefaultGen
 
Originally posted by: Archon

Edit: Ugh. I'm trying to talk myself out of keeping them both now -_-
 

You talked yourself out of that one pretty quick!
 


  Heh. No harm in keeping the auction up if someone wants to make me an offer. But upon this discover I AM more motivated to keep them both  

After looking at this above data and for sure approaching the situation with total incredulity I feel the cart is absolutely authentic. To speak to what the purpose of the cart was, this is still a mystery.
Pre production prototype? That would be fantastic. I think a ROM dump and comparitive analysis would be great too.

I say send it to WATA games for verfication and preservation!!!!
 


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 12:14 PM by Sign Collector Guy

Aug 10 at 12:22:15 PM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: Sign Collector Guy
Pre production prototype? That would be fantastic. I think a ROM dump and comparitive analysis would be great too.

I say send it to WATA games for verfication and preservation!!!!
 

Really the only proper guess I have (since so many of these boards made it to retail IN CIB units (at the very least, both mine and johnnys came out of CIB units)), is that they were using the hardware they had on hand till they ran out and then started using regular boards. They only made an estimated 1,000 units, which is way under minimum order, so who knows how they actually got made.
 


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 12:25 PM by Archon

Aug 10 at 12:48:40 PM
Johnny (155)
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I can speak a little on the origin of mine, it came from the Nolan Bros, who found got it out of a lot on eBay I believe back in 2010. They took pictures which can be found on this forum. The pictures they showed then match what they sent me. I figure they both are probably real, couple that with the fact we can verify mine and Archons came with the system. I haven't seen the rounded corner come out of a system box, perhaps DreamTR could be persuaded into opening his for a look.

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Aug 10 at 1:33:34 PM
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The board also matches what they used for that (so far) one of a kind PGA Tour Golf game. http://segaage.com/forum/messagev...

Very likely that what was going on here was that, because they were just making so few of these things, they hand-assembled many of them out of development hardware. I'm sure both are real.

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Aug 10 at 3:45:16 PM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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I think the only question I have now (that I'm trying to investigate, but owners of the 1 chip board have been terse about talking about it cause they think I'm trying to out them as fakes, which I'm not *eyeroll*) is about the lack of makers Mark's on the pcb

Aug 10 at 4:00:50 PM
snk2d4ever (62)
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(Chris M) < Tourian Tourist >
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I have a CIB in storage. I'll check it out next week and will get back to you.

Aug 10 at 4:07:57 PM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: snk2d4ever

I have a CIB in storage. I'll check it out next week and will get back to you.

thanks man! If you happen to have a picture of the label in the meantime, that would probably tell us if you need to bother. The rounded labels seem to correspond with 1-chip boards
 

Aug 10 at 5:05:15 PM
Bryansvideotrader (36)
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Hey just thought I'd drop this little nugget. The cart in question used to belong to me. I sold it to powerupvideogames at the beginning of 2018. There is a bit of a story as to how I acquired it, which I can add if you're up for story time. Prior to 2018 it had been in my possession since 2003. So it is impossible that people were making fakes before the overwhelming majority of the community even knew what it was. I can't explain the board variant. I can just offer that little bit of lineage.

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Aug 10 at 5:13:06 PM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: Bryansvideotrader

Hey just thought I'd drop this little nugget. The cart in question used to belong to me. I sold it to powerupvideogames at the beginning of 2018. There is a bit of a story as to how I acquired it, which I can add if you're up for story time. Prior to 2018 it had been in my possession since 2003. So it is impossible that people were making fakes before the overwhelming majority of the community even knew what it was. I can't explain the board variant. I can just offer that little bit of lineage.

Incredibly helpful Bryan!

would love story time! anything helps! Was it ever paired with the Heartbeat hardware while it was in your possession? 

I appreciate you taking the time in advance. The bigger paper trail the better. There are legitimately people in the community screaming "FAKE!" (surprise surprise, the people who own one are calling whichever they dont own a fake. lol)
 


Edited: 08/10/2018 at 05:29 PM by Archon

Aug 10 at 5:42:53 PM
Bryansvideotrader (36)
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(Bryan Sunkle) < Eggplant Wizard >
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It happened like this: a close friend of mine was going away to college in the Fall of 2002. We both graduated in 2002, but I wasn't going anywhere for college. He wanted to bring his Playstation 2 with him to college but was afraid that the discs would get ruined. OU(Ohio University) has a reputation as a bit of party school. Being the game connoisseur that I was/am, I didn't want to see anything happen to my buds collection. My PS2 had also recently crapped out on me. So I offered to let him borrow my Sega Genesis and a shoebox full of games and I borrowed his Playstation 2 and PS1/PS2 games. Fast forward to the end of my friend's freshman year when he came home for the summer. He says to me 'hey Bryan, I don't really know what happened, but I know that all of your games are not here.' I wasn't too happy that my Deion Sanders Prime Time Football was gone, but in the box was a curious game with a kangaroo on it. After unsuccessfully trying to play the Outback Joey cartridge on my Sega Nomad I did some research and was astonished to find out that it was one of the rarest carts in the Genesis library and that it required the 'Heartbeat Personal Trainer' in order to actually be used. It has been kept in my collection ever since.

-------------------------
 

Aug 10 at 6:07:06 PM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: Bryansvideotrader

It happened like this: a close friend of mine was going away to college in the Fall of 2002. We both graduated in 2002, but I wasn't going anywhere for college. He wanted to bring his Playstation 2 with him to college but was afraid that the discs would get ruined. OU(Ohio University) has a reputation as a bit of party school. Being the game connoisseur that I was/am, I didn't want to see anything happen to my buds collection. My PS2 had also recently crapped out on me. So I offered to let him borrow my Sega Genesis and a shoebox full of games and I borrowed his Playstation 2 and PS1/PS2 games. Fast forward to the end of my friend's freshman year when he came home for the summer. He says to me 'hey Bryan, I don't really know what happened, but I know that all of your games are not here.' I wasn't too happy that my Deion Sanders Prime Time Football was gone, but in the box was a curious game with a kangaroo on it. After unsuccessfully trying to play the Outback Joey cartridge on my Sega Nomad I did some research and was astonished to find out that it was one of the rarest carts in the Genesis library and that it required the 'Heartbeat Personal Trainer' in order to actually be used. It has been kept in my collection ever since.





Suddenly appearing in a box wasnt the story I'd hoped for, but thank you so much!

Aug 10 at 9:36:03 PM
Archon (19)
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(Stephan Reese) < Meka Chicken >
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Just for the sake of documentation, I wanted to add that I found at least 1 genesis game without a makers mark on the pcb (fatal fury) so theres at least some degree of precedence of that being a thing. I feel better.

Aug 10 at 10:10:51 PM
Tulpa (2)
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< Master Higgins >
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I would think that an unusual item with a low production number would probably have some weird aspects like the chips.

Aug 11 at 10:22:10 PM
MrMark0673 (454)
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(Mark Nolan) < Master Higgins >
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Originally posted by: Johnny

I can speak a little on the origin of mine, it came from the Nolan Bros, who found got it out of a lot on eBay I believe back in 2010. They took pictures which can be found on this forum. The pictures they showed then match what they sent me. I figure they both are probably real, couple that with the fact we can verify mine and Archons came with the system. I haven't seen the rounded corner come out of a system box, perhaps DreamTR could be persuaded into opening his for a look.
We hunted down a private copy and didn't buy it on Ebay, but everything else is accurate.  It was one of the hardest things we've ever tracked down (and that includes prototypes) and is one of the VERY few items I actually miss from our collection.

That cart is as real as it gets for what it's worth.  

 

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