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Cheetahmen 2: The Lost Levels Reproduction Kickstarter Event $60 for Complete Reproduction with Comic Book and Custom Sleeve

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Aug 13, 2012 at 9:52:05 AM
arch_8ngel (67)
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The only thing that disappoints me about this is that James/Mike seemed to have chickened out when they had the opportunity to stand up for the project and squelch the naysayers, where instead they folded like a cheap suit.

Also, it's a pretty pathetic testament to the level of intellect of modern youth if they think any of those videos "prove" (or even remotely provide evidence of) anything illegitimate about the project. Hopefully, some of these twits at some point reach the maturity level to be thoroughly embarrassed by their antics and attitudes.

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Edited: 08/13/2012 at 11:58 AM by arch_8ngel

Aug 13, 2012 at 11:53:16 AM
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bunnyboy (81)
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Originally posted by: PocketException
I saw several comments on that Archfiend video saying how "A simple worded apology isn't going to bring back the money they spent" and some other shit.
Those people are all lying.  There are still 24 days left for them to cancel with no penalties, so they have not lost any money.  The goal hasn't been reached so nobody has spent any money except Pabich.

Looks like TheArchfiend actively hates AVGN anyways, making his videos and comments an obviously biased source.


Edited: 08/13/2012 at 12:07 PM by bunnyboy

Aug 13, 2012 at 1:37:18 PM
Pat the NES Punk (23)
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Oh boy oh boy, I am back from CGE! I actually met and spoke with my personal hero Howard Phillips! What could possibly bring my mood down!

Oh, all this... let's clear up some of this garbage and misinformation being throw around.

James and Mike are not against this kickstarter project. I actually spoke with Mike Matei, James Rolfe, and Greg Pabich this weekend due to the backlash of the vocal minority.

Mike's comment on YT about not supporting the kickstarter was a knee-jerk panic reaction to the wave of negative criticism at the time. That was NOT James' opinion. James was almost unaware of any real backlash going on. Mike was not clued in on production costs of the game (as he was not involved in all with the production of the kickstarter video), and unfortunately listened to the ignorant comments out there from people who had no idea what an NES reproduction cart was or the production costs involved in making said cart. It was simply Mike's job to upload the video since he is the one that manages the JamesNintendoNerd account, not James. Once Mike was made aware of the production costs, he realized his massive boo-boo and took down his comments that questioned the kickstarter. Of course, the damage was already done from his comments and the rabid James Rolfe haters had enough ammunition to last a year. If he had just called someone (like Greg or me) and talked for like two minutes, he would have never put up any comments saying "Wow I'm not sure why this kickstarter costs this much." 

I have the advantage of being a little bit more knowledgable than James/Mike when it comes to these repros carts. I always figured the cost of the project was somewhere in the $40-45 range per cart so I saw no problem with the project or the fact that Greg was making some profit for his time/effort. That's why from the beginning I never changed any opinion or put up a retraction, or felt the need to explain myself and actually defended what I put my name on. But James/Mike didn't have all the knowledge I had. Once they had that knowledge, everything was alright. Again, I wish I had spoken to James/Mike if I had known they were unaware of production costs to explain it to them. That would saved everyone a lot of heartache.

The hatred that has been associated with the backlash has almost entirely been filled with ignorance and/or hollow self-righteousness, especially from people that already hated James to begin with and just used this as ammo to go after him. People have gotten on me for disabling comments on the kickstarter video (as they have with Mike), but why should I have to read and accept comments that are filled with blind hatred/ignorance and are spreading false lies about James, me, and the project? I have to allow people to falsely drag my name through the mud, or call me racist and awful things? James has to allow that and the spread of misinformation in order to malign our reputations? Answer: No.

Could the kickstarter video have been clearer concerning production costs to alleviate concerns? Yes, and that is why I personally recommended that Greg shoot a follow-up video explaining such and that's why it's now online at the kickstarter page, on Cinemassacre, and on YT. I'm hoping that anyone who had true concerns will see the video and be put more at ease.





Greg is a business man at the end of the day, but he's also a good guy. He donated a good amount to my 2nd NES Marathon last year, and has been nothing but upfront with me about this project. There is no malice intended here and nothing is being misrepresented. If the kickstarter goal is hit the pledgers will receive what they pledged to receive. If you don't agree with the kickstarter project for a crappy Cheetahmen game, that is fine, but to label it a "scam" is false and wrong.

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Edited: 08/13/2012 at 03:25 PM by Pat the NES Punk

Aug 13, 2012 at 1:46:14 PM
Paul (226)
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Thanks for posting Pat. Hopefully this will quiet the naysayers.

Also, hope you had a great time at CGE.

Aug 13, 2012 at 1:51:02 PM
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Awesome to hear from you Pat. Thanks for posting that and clearing things up.

Aug 13, 2012 at 1:52:40 PM
thefox (0)
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/thread

EDIT: God damn ninjas, that was for Pat.

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Edited: 08/13/2012 at 01:53 PM by thefox

Aug 13, 2012 at 2:48:31 PM
Piko (51)
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Im going to demand production cost on the next Nintendo Wii Mario game that Nintendo will release.

You know, if they do not provide that.. it is a scam

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Aug 13, 2012 at 3:02:35 PM
just2good (0)
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Originally posted by: pichichi010

Im going to demand production cost on the next Nintendo Wii Mario game that Nintendo will release.

You know, if they do not provide that.. it is a scam

Well said.


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Aug 13, 2012 at 3:46:27 PM
videogamehunter (56)
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I supported the project from the beginning and it pains me for me to see this hate going on. I just hope everything just calms down.

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Aug 13, 2012 at 6:05:07 PM
MrMark0673 (454)
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Wow, what the hell happened in this thread? I thought the video was horrible and the product not worth my money, but where did all the hate and crazy talk come from?

The guy owns the rights to a game that he is making and looking to profit from his work. Don't see an issue there. I personally won't buy a copy, but I don't hope the project fails just because I don't want the game..

Very odd stuff, I really didn't see a crazy backlash in the works.

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Aug 13, 2012 at 7:51:10 PM
xcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxc (0)

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I posted something that I shouldn't have posted without doing proper research, and I ended up making a dick of myself. I'm sorry.

Aug 13, 2012 at 8:42:51 PM
MrMark0673 (454)
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I do that at least once a week here, so no worries

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Aug 13, 2012 at 9:57:44 PM
Elijah (161)
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Originally posted by: PocketException

I posted something that I shouldn't have posted without doing proper research, and I ended up making a dick of myself. I'm sorry.

Well, you are big enough to admit it, and apologize.  There are few around here who will never admit it.  Major props to you man


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Aug 13, 2012 at 10:14:20 PM
just2good (0)
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Also, don't know if this has been posted, but read this:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-cou...

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Edited: 08/13/2012 at 10:14 PM by just2good

Aug 13, 2012 at 10:25:19 PM
Elijah (161)
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Originally posted by: just2good

Also, don't know if this has been posted, but read this:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1000348.html


Believe it or not, it has (in another thread)

Actually just makes me like Pabich more....scroll to the bottom.   Some dude steals 750k from him, sues him, wins 3 million, then Pabich appeals, and gets his money back.

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Aug 13, 2012 at 10:38:52 PM
Pat the NES Punk (23)
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Originally posted by: JD

Originally posted by: just2good

Also, don't know if this has been posted, but read this:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1000348.html


Believe it or not, it has (in another thread)

Actually just makes me like Pabich more....scroll to the bottom.   Some dude steals 750k from him, sues him, wins 3 million, then Pabich appeals, and gets his money back.

Seriously, people are bringing up this 10 year old lawsuit like it's a "Gotcha!." People aren't even reading it and realizing that Greg was found to be in the right and was trying to defend himself from someone stealing money from him.


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Edited: 08/13/2012 at 10:39 PM by Pat the NES Punk

Aug 13, 2012 at 10:49:11 PM
Duke.Togo (113)
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Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Originally posted by: JD

Originally posted by: just2good

Also, don't know if this has been posted, but read this:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1000348.html


Believe it or not, it has (in another thread)

Actually just makes me like Pabich more....scroll to the bottom.   Some dude steals 750k from him, sues him, wins 3 million, then Pabich appeals, and gets his money back.

Seriously, people are bringing up this 10 year old lawsuit like it's a "Gotcha!." People aren't even reading it and realizing that Greg was found to be in the right and was trying to defend himself from someone stealing money from him.
 
Don't bother Pat. Haters gonna hate.



Aug 13, 2012 at 10:53:32 PM
just2good (0)
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Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Originally posted by: JD

Originally posted by: just2good

Also, don't know if this has been posted, but read this:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1000348.html


Believe it or not, it has (in another thread)

Actually just makes me like Pabich more....scroll to the bottom.   Some dude steals 750k from him, sues him, wins 3 million, then Pabich appeals, and gets his money back.

Seriously, people are bringing up this 10 year old lawsuit like it's a "Gotcha!." People aren't even reading it and realizing that Greg was found to be in the right and was trying to defend himself from someone stealing money from him.
 


Sorry if I came off the wrong way Pat. I just wanted to see peoples thoughts on it. I meant to put that the Archfiend is using it in his defense, but he needs to read up on it!

-------------------------
 

Aug 13, 2012 at 11:11:29 PM
Pat the NES Punk (23)
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(Patrick Contri) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: just2good

Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Originally posted by: JD

Originally posted by: just2good

Also, don't know if this has been posted, but read this:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1000348.html


Believe it or not, it has (in another thread)

Actually just makes me like Pabich more....scroll to the bottom.   Some dude steals 750k from him, sues him, wins 3 million, then Pabich appeals, and gets his money back.

Seriously, people are bringing up this 10 year old lawsuit like it's a "Gotcha!." People aren't even reading it and realizing that Greg was found to be in the right and was trying to defend himself from someone stealing money from him.
 


Sorry if I came off the wrong way Pat. I just wanted to see peoples thoughts on it. I meant to put that the Archfiend is using it in his defense, but he needs to read up on it!

Not a problem... it wasn't directed at you.


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Aug 14, 2012 at 1:08:49 AM
Luigi_Master (29)
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A Serious question for those of you who who aren't interested in this game but aren't against this project. Suppose a few hours is left and it has raised all but $240, roughly 4 people didn't put a preorder in. Would you guys still put it in, since it is so close to the goal?

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Aug 14, 2012 at 2:00:29 AM
ViolentSmoker (0)
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Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Oh boy oh boy, I am back from CGE! I actually met and spoke with my personal hero Howard Phillips! What could possibly bring my mood down!

Oh, all this... let's clear up some of this garbage and misinformation being throw around.

James and Mike are not against this kickstarter project. I actually spoke with Mike Matei, James Rolfe, and Greg Pabich this weekend due to the backlash of the vocal minority.

Mike's comment on YT about not supporting the kickstarter was a knee-jerk panic reaction to the wave of negative criticism at the time. That was NOT James' opinion. James was almost unaware of any real backlash going on. Mike was not clued in on production costs of the game (as he was not involved in all with the production of the kickstarter video), and unfortunately listened to the ignorant comments out there from people who had no idea what an NES reproduction cart was or the production costs involved in making said cart. It was simply Mike's job to upload the video since he is the one that manages the JamesNintendoNerd account, not James. Once Mike was made aware of the production costs, he realized his massive boo-boo and took down his comments that questioned the kickstarter. Of course, the damage was already done from his comments and the rabid James Rolfe haters had enough ammunition to last a year. If he had just called someone (like Greg or me) and talked for like two minutes, he would have never put up any comments saying "Wow I'm not sure why this kickstarter costs this much." 

I have the advantage of being a little bit more knowledgable than James/Mike when it comes to these repros carts. I always figured the cost of the project was somewhere in the $40-45 range per cart so I saw no problem with the project or the fact that Greg was making some profit for his time/effort. That's why from the beginning I never changed any opinion or put up a retraction, or felt the need to explain myself and actually defended what I put my name on. But James/Mike didn't have all the knowledge I had. Once they had that knowledge, everything was alright. Again, I wish I had spoken to James/Mike if I had known they were unaware of production costs to explain it to them. That would saved everyone a lot of heartache.

The hatred that has been associated with the backlash has almost entirely been filled with ignorance and/or hollow self-righteousness, especially from people that already hated James to begin with and just used this as ammo to go after him. People have gotten on me for disabling comments on the kickstarter video (as they have with Mike), but why should I have to read and accept comments that are filled with blind hatred/ignorance and are spreading false lies about James, me, and the project? I have to allow people to falsely drag my name through the mud, or call me racist and awful things? James has to allow that and the spread of misinformation in order to malign our reputations? Answer: No.

Could the kickstarter video have been clearer concerning production costs to alleviate concerns? Yes, and that is why I personally recommended that Greg shoot a follow-up video explaining such and that's why it's now online at the kickstarter page, on Cinemassacre, and on YT. I'm hoping that anyone who had true concerns will see the video and be put more at ease.





Greg is a business man at the end of the day, but he's also a good guy. He donated a good amount to my 2nd NES Marathon last year, and has been nothing but upfront with me about this project. There is no malice intended here and nothing is being misrepresented. If the kickstarter goal is hit the pledgers will receive what they pledged to receive. If you don't agree with the kickstarter project for a crappy Cheetahmen game, that is fine, but to label it a "scam" is false and wrong.
Your pathetic attempts to silence detractors is sickening.  Disable whatever you want to disable.  We're still out here and now we think you're a coward as well as a money grubbing scumbag abusing a charity.

I have serious concerns about sites like Kickstarter even when used for their intended purpose.  Some rich scammer getting richer because you're enough of an tool to dupe your fanbase?  Not its intended purpose.  This is a charity.  You're eliciting donations for a charity.  The Cheetamen 2 project is simply a business with a pure interest in profit (which it pretty obviously is) then investors should be getting a return on their investment.  They didn't have other donation levels besides the $60 and maybe your argument that they are only using a charity site irresponsibly as some sort of way to elicit preorders might actually be valid.  Even if everything you've said was true, you'd be making a mockery of everything Kickstarter was designed to foster as well as creating an environment where it is all the harder for the artists that could legitimately benefit to be taken seriously.

They don't believe Cheetamen 2 is art and neither do you.  You're misrepresenting yourselves, your motivations, and your product.  That's why it's a SCAM.

Oh and if I was Mike I'd punch you in your fat head for saying I was "speaking out of turn".

Aug 14, 2012 at 2:23:53 AM
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bunnyboy (81)
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Originally posted by: ViolentSmoker

The Cheetamen 2 project is simply a business with a pure interest in profit (which it pretty obviously is) then investors should be getting a return on their investment.  
"Investors" are getting the product they preordered.  Same as any other commercial product.

Originally posted by: ViolentSmoker

Even if everything you've said was true, you'd be making a mockery of everything Kickstarter was designed to foster...

...They don't believe Cheetamen 2 is art and neither do you.
Kickstarter approved the project, and they will make a $3000+ profit if it succeeds.  "Art" is also not a requirement for a Kickstarter project.  There is a category specifically for video games.

Aug 14, 2012 at 2:45:00 AM
xcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxcxc (0)

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Originally posted by: JD

Originally posted by: PocketException

I posted something that I shouldn't have posted without doing proper research, and I ended up making a dick of myself. I'm sorry.

Well, you are big enough to admit it, and apologize.  There are few around here who will never admit it.  Major props to you man
 

Thanks. and thanks Mark.
anywho, speaking of Cheetahmen, who else wanted those action figures?


Aug 14, 2012 at 3:17:16 AM
ViolentSmoker (0)
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

"Investors" are getting the product they preordered.  Same as any other commercial product.

This is not Amazon.  This is a charity.  No one is expecting to get a product comparable to what they've donated and they don't.  $1 donations do not get the game.  $1000 donations do not get much more than the game.  Unless I've been misinformed, this guy has tried selling the game through legitimate channels and failed miserably.

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Kickstarter approved the project, and they will make a $3000+ profit if it succeeds.

This would be the reason I have serious concerns about Kickstarter as a site in general as stated.  They also approve the most obvious of scammers e-begging for their own islands.

Originally posted by: bunnyboy

"Art" is also not a requirement for a Kickstarter project. There is a category specifically for video games.


Doesn't change the fact Kickstarter at least puts up the facade of existing for the purpose of fostering artistic endeavors.  Video games as art debate aside.

Aug 14, 2012 at 4:12:13 AM
Pat the NES Punk (23)
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(Patrick Contri) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: ViolentSmoker

Your pathetic attempts to silence detractors is sickening.  Disable whatever you want to disable.  We're still out here and now we think you're a coward as well as a money grubbing scumbag abusing a charity.

I have serious concerns about sites like Kickstarter even when used for their intended purpose.  Some rich scammer getting richer because you're enough of an tool to dupe your fanbase?  Not its intended purpose.  This is a charity.  You're eliciting donations for a charity.  The Cheetamen 2 project is simply a business with a pure interest in profit (which it pretty obviously is) then investors should be getting a return on their investment.  They didn't have other donation levels besides the $60 and maybe your argument that they are only using a charity site irresponsibly as some sort of way to elicit preorders might actually be valid.  Even if everything you've said was true, you'd be making a mockery of everything Kickstarter was designed to foster as well as creating an environment where it is all the harder for the artists that could legitimately benefit to be taken seriously.

They don't believe Cheetamen 2 is art and neither do you.  You're misrepresenting yourselves, your motivations, and your product.  That's why it's a SCAM.

Oh and if I was Mike I'd punch you in your fat head for saying I was "speaking out of turn".

wwwwwwwwwwn..." target="_blank">wwwwwwwwwwn...> Sorry, I almost fell asleep reading that. Or maybe I was too busy "silencing detractors," which is funny since you've been allowed to respond here.

Do you actually believe what you are babbling about? Kickstarter and I quote from good old wikipedia: "Kickstarter is a crowd funding website for creative projects. Kickstarter has funded a diverse array of endeavors, ranging from indie filmsmusic and comics to journalismvideo games, and food-related projects. Charity, cause, "fund-my-life" projects and open-ended fundraising are not permitted."  Here's the info concerning their company history: "Kickstarter reportedly raised $10 million funding from backers including NYC-based venture firm Union Square Ventures and angel investors such as Jack DorseyZach Klein and Caterina Fake. The company is based in Manhattan's Lower East Side."

Venture firm. Angel investors. Based in Manhattan - one of the places with highest real estate costs in the world. What is the charity being abused again?  Do you realize the cut that Kickstarter makes from every project? Do you honestly think kickstarter is a not-for-profit organization? Kickstarter is not a charity website, and it is not an investment website. Again, it is a crowd-funding website, NOT A CHARITY WEBSITE. I just dismantled your weak-ass argument with about, oh, 12 seconds of research, half a brain, and a lack of self-righteous idignation over something extremely trivial.

The Cheetahmen II project is a business venture, just like tons of other kickstarters. You may not agree with what the end business goal is (the production of 1000 physical NES carts for consumers), but that doesn't make it a scam just because you don't personally like it. Nothing is being misrepresented in the kickstarter video or campaign, and consumers will receive what they pledge for exactly from their pledge amount. If people want to donate more than $60, they are not being taken for a ride with promises of something that will be there that's not. I too would question the sanity of anyone donating $5000 for a Cheetahmen II project, but just about every kickstarter project has goal amounts that are just insane. If people want to give a lot of money to what they think is a cool project, at the end of the day it's not my money, so I truly cannot judge their intentions.

Cheetahmen II is a terrible game, everyone knows it's a terrible game, James' AVGN review and everyone on the planet said it was a crappy game,  the kickstarter says it's a crappy game, and anyone who pre-orders a copy knows it's a crappy game. On top of that, most people ordering this title will never even open the damn game to play it, most likely. You ever hear of video game collectors? Yeah, they're the ones pre-ordering this game. The same people (like me) who will spend a lot of money on game on Ebay just to get it and never play it.

What the hell is your "art comment" going on about? When did anyone ever say Cheetahmen II was art?! Are you making this argument up as you go along?! Please, please show me where the misrepresentation is happening. What's that, you cannot? 

And you quoted something I never said. I never said Mike "spoke out of turn." I said that Mike lacked the knowledge concerning reproduction of NES repro carts that I had. He would be the first to agree.

But hey, if you still want to attempt to assault me, Mr. Violent Smoker, plese feel free to come out to Portland Retro Gaming Expo, or perhaps MAGFest next January. I am not difficult to find. You have "violent" in your name so you must be a bad ass! If you truly are what you say you are, I will have no problem taking a beating from you as long as eight years from now you contract a nice case of Emphysema as well. 







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Edited: 08/14/2012 at 04:13 AM by Pat the NES Punk