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February 1, 2008: the beginning of the end of the video game collecting hobby.

Jan 8, 2008 at 10:03:18 AM
Battymo (100)
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(Scrubb'n Nutz) < King Solomon >
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I'm new to the whole grading thing (never had an interest in comics/figures/etc)... What is the overall benefit of having your stuff graded? For your own satisfaction or is it more to do with having to turn around and sell it?

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Jan 8, 2008 at 10:22:32 AM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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a little bit of both.

when buying, you get a sort of impartial opinion on grade so you can feel more comfortable you're getting what you're paying for.

when selling, graded items are great in terms of liquidity and if your stuff is nice enough hopefully you net a nice price.




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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 10:23:46 AM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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I've invited them over here.... let's see if they show up.


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sealed video games - I understand you're moving into this area. As part of the sealed game collector community I have some concerns and would like to invite one of your game-related representatives to nintendoage.com to take part in the discussion.

The thread is at http://www.nintendoage.com/for...did=4847&enterthread=y , I hope to see you there.

thanks kindly
Dan
aka Bronty


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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 10:35:52 AM
nes_king (63)
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(josh .) < Ridley Wrangler >
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i dont think anyone needs to start grading video games!

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sell me your flintstones surprise at dinosaur peak MANUAL..


Jan 8, 2008 at 10:36:01 AM
Quack (63)
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(Quack Quack) < King Solomon >
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I never liked the grading system for comics, sport cards, etc....just personal opinion....it was rubbed me the wrong way, you got people getting in collecting just for the money, not the hobby itself.....that's just me though

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Mr Penguin O4 (9:01:18 PM): Quackenguin
SnappleSTG (9:01:28 PM): Pengenbush


Swing by my YouTube channel for a visit, and sub up while you're there! :)


Jan 8, 2008 at 11:48:22 AM
Jumpman Jr. (43)
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The way I see it, unless they get a Bronty for each console ever made, I don't know how it will be done.

Jan 8, 2008 at 11:48:42 AM
Dr. Morbis (28)
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(Basil T) < Kraid Killer >
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I'll never buy a graded game in my life, nor will I ever get a game graded, but I still see this as great news. Since I only buy sealed games with the expressed intent to open them and thus have a mint playable copy, all the higher-priced graded games out there will make the non-graded games (that I'm in the market for) drop in value... Bring on the AFA!

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My mantra, as worded by SamSpade on 06/12/12:
I don't resell to fund my collection, I don't treat this hobby like a second job, I don't care if my collection is worth ten bucks or ten thousand because I never plan on selling it. Seriously, what does the value have to do with anything if you never plan on selling? Speculation doesn't mean jack shit to me at this point, I just want to play my nes games...


Edited: 01/08/2008 at 11:54 AM by Dr. Morbis

Jan 8, 2008 at 11:50:56 AM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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Originally posted by: Quack

I never liked the grading system for comics, sport cards, etc....just personal opinion....it was rubbed me the wrong way, you got people getting in collecting just for the money, not the hobby itself.....that's just me though


Yeah. On the other hand if you only buy what you like at prices you can afford you can never really lose.

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 11:58:19 AM
Quack (63)
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(Quack Quack) < King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: Bronty

Originally posted by: Quack



I never liked the grading system for comics, sport cards, etc....just personal opinion....it was rubbed me the wrong way, you got people getting in collecting just for the money, not the hobby itself.....that's just me though




Yeah. On the other hand if you only buy what you like at prices you can afford you can never really lose.


That is very true...and in the last few years I bought some boxes of Topps baseball sets from the 80's cause that's what I grew up with and I could get them for real cheap since sets never got graded, just single cards. So pros and cons for both.

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Mr Penguin O4 (9:01:18 PM): Quackenguin
SnappleSTG (9:01:28 PM): Pengenbush


Swing by my YouTube channel for a visit, and sub up while you're there! :)


Jan 8, 2008 at 12:14:45 PM
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Bronty (65)
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I'd encourage the rest of you to send similar emails to info@toygrader.com . If we have questions to ask we might as well talk to the horse's mouth if we can.

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 1:12:16 PM
wrldstrman (107)
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(doug prickett) < Master Higgins >
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In my opinion the only reason for a grading system is for rich people to have somewhere to spend there money. I may be a tad on the strange side but I would never spend thousands on a baseball card, stamp ,coin, comic book. Its a shame everything has to turn into a money matter. I collect games because I can play them. Im not the least impressed by those who own a first edition spiderman. If thats what they wanted to spend their money on I dont have a problem with it but having one doesnt make them any better of a collecter than a 5 year old kid with 3 comics. So basically grading isnt for anything other than for someone saying one copy is worth more than another. And like I alway say something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. So if someone grades a game 10 gem mint doesnt mean its worth anymore than one on ebay. Just a shame everything any more has to come down to money. Gaming has started to turn more into not who the most diehard collectors are but the ones with the most money.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

Jan 8, 2008 at 1:39:51 PM
bunnyboy (81)
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The grading is not just about money for the seller or showing off that your copy is better. Have you ever bought a game on eBay that was advertised as MINT, had somewhat clear pictures, but then showed up with creases or bashed corners? With the grade you have a scale of how minty fresh it actually is. I have so far stayed away from buying black box CIB on ebay because of this reason, my idea of mint is not close to what people advertise and the photos aren't good enough.



The grade is just a "condition" mark, not a "value" mark, so it doesn't require them to know about every cart/manual/box variant. With sealed they will just need to know if it is factory sealed, and what condition the outside plastic/box is in. Even when they get into CIB games they will only need to grade what is there, not state that everything is complete and no parts missing. Hopefully the slab would be able to display everything but I doubt it for this company.

Jan 8, 2008 at 2:10:18 PM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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Originally posted by: wrldstrman

Gaming has started to turn more into not who the most diehard collectors are but the ones with the most money.


that's just the way of the world man. why scream against something you can't change.

I think your values are great, I really do.... but I don't think it changes the end result.

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!



Edited: 01/08/2008 at 02:11 PM by Bronty

Jan 8, 2008 at 2:13:26 PM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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Well, I just got a really nice email from the VGA (yes, the Video Game Authority). It seems that they tried to post on the thread but had security issues with Vista that didn't allow them to post (red x problem - Dain?).

Anyways, I am going to post the email if they are OK with it and will chat to them tonight on the phone as well.

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 2:19:03 PM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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Originally posted by: Jumpman Jr.

The way I see it, unless they get a Bronty for each console ever made, I don't know how it will be done.


aw shucks

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 2:27:58 PM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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VGA speaks:

Hi Dan,



I was forwarded your email by TL Alexander at CGA regarding questions you may have related to our new VGA division. I registered on your site, but can't post anything, most likely due to the security settings on Windows Vista and the interface which pops up. The interface just shows the text box x'ed out for me. I will try to address some of the questions and concerns I've read on the forum in this email.



1) I am personally responsible for 'policing ' the collectible toy market and provide most COAs in that industry which reflect the authenticity of rare items. I have been the one privately researching the avenue of grading collectible games for the CGA family of companies. I have been in contact with several experienced collectors over the last 6 months, but would always welcome new input, especially from knowledgeable collectors such as yourself.

2) I did start out by running a company called 'Cloud City' which retailed toys. This is probably the only way someone could develop the experience necessary to properly assess authenticity and condition. However, I sold this company over 2 years ago, and as of next month, the company is actually changing locations and moving to another state under its new ownership. I no longer hold any ownership there.

3) VGA is not setting out to destroy any market. I understand that some collectors will feel that more people coming in and collecting may drive prices of games up, but as in other industries, we expect grading to not only expand interest, but to at least put some safeguards in place for buyers who are making sight unseen purchases. We have no control over prices. We provide a service and prices are driven strictly based on supply and demand.

4) VGA custom manufactures each and every case to fit the specific collectible being preserved. These cases not only look top notch, but actually serve to preserve an item's condition over decades to come. They are a much better storage option than the existing plastic cases.

5) While some people don't like the idea of grading, it becomes necessary when prices reach a certain level. How many times have you been disappointed in the condition of something you've received? How many times have you received an obvious reseal?

6) VGA won't be able to detect every reseal out there. However, the vast majority will be detected. Resealed video games have many of the same characteristics of resealed toys. While someone could probably remove the plastic from a new game and seal new plastic around it if they were talented enough, it would be extremely difficult to reseal plastic around a game which has been previously opened and leave no evidence. Opened games display other characteristics which identify them as opened. Our goal is to ensure within a reasonable margin of error that a game is brand new. I would personally welcome and highly appreciate any information you can offer on this subject as well, because while NES, SNES, and Atari games are relatively easy to identify as reseals, there is much less information out there regarding original seals from more obscure video game systems.

7) Our primary goal is to provide better assurance to buyers. Obviously when honest sellers operate on eBay and such, this isn't necessary. Unfortunately, there are many dishonest sellers in any hobby. Our other goals are preservation and enhancement to the displayability of one's collection.

8) I, along with VGA, understand that not every collector desires a grading system. Many collectors, especially the ones on your forum, can spot a reseal a mile away and don't need it. However, some collectors aren't as knowledgeable and feel safer when the seal is looked at by a third party and the condition of the packaging is assessed prior to their sight unseen purchase. I don't want to debate the need for a system, because after 8 years grading toys, some people like it and some don't. Ungraded toys sell cheaper than ever and graded toys cost more. There is room for two sides on the issue and both can benefit.



Based on your email, I assume that you take a very fair-minded approach to the idea. I would welcome your input and that of any other well respected collectors. In exchange for helping provide an additional knowledge base to this endeavor, VGA would certainly compensate collectors with credit for either free grading or free sliding bottom acrylic cases. I can assure you that whether or not people like the idea of grading, these acrylic cases are the highest quality in the world, bar none. All labor and assembly is done by hand, on-site at CGA's facility in Georgia. If you are willing to discuss your ideas, questions, and concerns further with me, please either call me at the number below or email me your phone number and the best time to call. I look forward to speaking.



Thank you,



Tom


Hi Dan,

I'll give you a call in the next couple of days. I truly appreciate your input. You may post my email to the forum. We want to be as transparent as possible. We have a great deal to learn about variations and highly advanced knowledge on games. In fact, any hobby is a constant learning process, and we certainly want to enlist the help of those who are universally considered the most knowledgeable and honest in any hobby. I won't personally debate the merits of grading any longer, as I did that for over 5 years, but I will be happy to provide answers, clarification, and always accept both suggestions and criticism, in an effort to constantly improve the service which VGA plans to offer. Please let the other forum members know that while they may be interested in hearing what I have to say, I would be equally if not more interested in hearing any productive suggestions which they can offer. I am myself no expert on video games specifically, at least not on the level of many of your forum members. What I am an expert on is assessing original seals and condition as they each apply to many different types of collectibles. I do however, have a great deal I could learn from many of the experienced video game collectors out there. I look forward to speaking.

Thanks,

Tom

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 4:03:06 PM
Penguin (238)
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A very interesting idea, it will be cool to see how this plays out. Only thing I don't like about the grading is that you would have to ship your game out for them too grade, and with the boxes it is easy to damage them and then you have to worry about it getting lost in the mail.

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Looking for Black cartridge Color Dreams games, last 3 I need:  Metal Fighter, Moon Ranger, Baby Boomer.  Please contact me if you have any of these!



 

Jan 8, 2008 at 4:33:32 PM
jaredkk (57)
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(Jared Klinger) < King Solomon >
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I would like to get some of those plastic, bottom-slide cases he mentions in the email.  They sound nice.

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Jan 8, 2008 at 6:37:03 PM
nesdude (122)
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I guess I was right about the Cloud City thing. I know from my Star Wars collecting days that Tom is a good guy, (I have even bought figures from him, through his old store back in the day), I just dont like the idea of grading toys, and I like the idea of grading games even less. I was really turned off when AFA started opening sealed toys to get the "uncirculated" grade.

Jan 8, 2008 at 6:51:11 PM
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KHAN Games (88)
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(Kevin Hanley) < Master Higgins >
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I'm curious about these cases as well.

Jan 8, 2008 at 6:53:01 PM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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Well, I think I know what the next ezine article should be about.

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 7:05:20 PM
pedro! (24)
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Bronty, it seems like you, if anyone, could make out like a bandit on this. It is my understanding that you have an amazing sealed collection. I can only imagine the fortune you'd be sitting on when this happens. Congrats?

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WWW.PEDROGAMES.COM

Jan 8, 2008 at 7:14:08 PM
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Bronty (65)
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Well, we shall see. I do have a decent collection of sealed stuff (there are better out there I'm sure, but mine's pretty good I think) so it might benefit me one day, yes. At the same time most of what I have has been pared down to stuff I want to keep. Don't have as many doubles as I used to.

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WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!


Jan 8, 2008 at 7:33:33 PM
D_N_G (2)
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(Jack Burton) < Crack Trooper >
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havent read any of the links yet, just wanted
to chime in

this isnt really a new idea. in 2001,  i started looking into the feasability of grading games as a business. i discussed all aspects with portnoyd at the time. if all the logistics were worked out it could possibly be done right, but wouldnt turn enough profit in the end for the work that would need to go into it starting from scratch

 first off you would have to design cases that could securely store  many different shapes and sizes of items or design tailor made cases per system. this is a benefit to afa since they already are in the business of doing these type of customizations

a rating system per item type would need to be devised

a single rating would not be sufficient as there are case/box, manual, then cart or cd gradings, and would also require knowledge of all additional contents.

afterwards an overall grade could be given but if you have a shitty manual for example then you are screwed as a submitter

you would also have to guarantee a game is working with no cart/bit rot, scratches, etc. you would also need to be able to identify reproductions, meaning opeining carts and knowing circuitry and cd pressing id verification as well as paper stock for manuals/boxes

also this would allow piecing together a CIB, which does not necessarily mean it is the original that came with the item.

in any other hobby doing something like that is frowned upon, whether it be adding a cover to a comic, or a backer to a figure, or ironing a card.  

there would be no way to detect this aspect. and thats not the biggest problem.

sealed item verification would be next to impossible, you would absolutely have to have an expert that knew an individual title to verify

a few big fuck ups in a business like this and you lose all credibility. who knows maybe these guys have devised a foolproof solution. kudos to them for getting something to market, but this will probably end up being a niche service in a niche component of a niche market 



Edited: 01/08/2008 at 08:15 PM by D_N_G

Jan 8, 2008 at 7:51:58 PM
D_N_G (2)
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