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The official unofficial Anti-VGA thread

Mar 1, 2010 at 10:19:30 PM
rarebucky (165)

(Adam Buchwald) < Ridley Wrangler >
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I think that some of you believe that by posting these kinds of threads that it will somehow affect the market for VGA games or deter potential buyers. I think you're wrong, dead wrong in fact. But keep up the flaming it is quite entertaining to hear you guys talk to yourselves

Mar 1, 2010 at 10:24:58 PM
BeaglePuss (41)
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(Matt Nolan) < Bowser >
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Originally posted by: rarebucky

I think that some of you believe that by posting these kinds of threads that it will somehow affect the market for VGA games or deter potential buyers. I think you're wrong, dead wrong in fact. But keep up the flaming it is quite entertaining to hear you guys talk to yourselves



Down with Acrylic!  Down with Acrylic!  Down with Acrylic!  Down with Acrylic! 


Mar 1, 2010 at 10:42:25 PM
MoeDown (71)
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Originally posted by: portnoyd

Originally posted by: MoeDown

Originally posted by: jonebone

1) Grading toys has absolutely nothing to do with video games.

It is easy to determine if a toy is sealed, either the bubble plastic is stuck to the cardboard or not.  Video games are much more complex. 

Oh yes, because there is no such thing as a resealed toy!!!???? It is obvious you have no knowledge of the sealed toy market and this comment shows that.

Video Games are 10 times easier to grade than a toy....


To jonebone's defense (I can hear Satan banging the thermostat wildly), why would he have any knowledge of the toy market? Mocking him for not having first has knowledge is ridiculous. His point stands: toy grading experience does not equal game grading experience. As I mentioned above to bunnyboy, while they may be experts in packaging, there is no way to tell if they are experts in game packaging as their business model is such a black box regarding their graders and their methodology.

Nextamundo!


With all due respect, Port,

When your first point in an argument against something is grossly inaccurate, it exposes your flawed reasoning and for me, negates your entire argument. Do you take financial advice from a bum on the street?

Originally posted by: jonebone

Stay tuned... I'll be making a lengthy post tomorrow with my proposed solution to this problem. I think I might actually get a lot of buy-in, though we'll need a community discussion to see if it is a practical idea.

I honestly can't wait to hear it. It should be very entertaining.

-------------------------------------------------

Even though I know this for a fact already, I just got off the phone with Tom Derby (CGA) for verification:

--VGA will never grade loose games.

--It has never been in their plans to grade loose games and it never will.

--In order to grade loose toys, the toy must be examined to work as it should. All parts assembled. All moving parts, tested. Thus any loose video game would have to be played....a service they neither have the time or knowledge to accomplish.

--CIB games will never be graded outside of what is already being graded, that is: new, complete, never used but not sealed.

--They will in the future authenticate (with the aid of a proto expert) and slab with no grade, any prototype games that may be submitted. I'm sure this will change the topic to "run for the hills, they're grading protos, our world is at an end" and "who do they think they are blah blah blah." but remember kids....I said authenticate not grade and I said with the aid of an expert not that they are the experts...

So, having put to rest the misconception that VGA wil someday affect the loose/CIB community, any further arguments siting that as a counter-point will be moot.

To the few naysayers.....what's your real problem? Or rather, who? There's only a handful of us VGA sellers on eBay so I can't help feel your attacks are directed at us specifically. So who the hell is it? You say sellers who get the games graded with the sole intention of reselling at a higher price, right? Well I'm calling everybody out. I'll go first:

--I'm bighedkingpin on eBay. I operate BigHedToyz, I have been an AFA dealer since 2004 and have submitted close to 5000 items for grading since then, including about 400 games. I collect sealed video games. I have about 500 games in my collection. The only ones not sealed are a bunch of Neo-Geo games (most of which are new, never played) and a BK:LE, also never played. That's my thing. That's what I do. New, extremely minty games are what makes me happy. I enjoy collecting immensely. More than half of my collection is graded and if it isn't, it will be soon. I've sold hundreds of graded games on eBay, and "oh my god!" all at a profit. I have a great collection to show for it and a 100% positive reputation on eBay for 6 years so obviously, my customers haven't felt ripped-off, or manipulated into paying for something they want...

--There's rarebucky. I don't know if you've seen pics of Adam's collection, but I have and it's quite impressive. To say he's not a collector is ludicrous. Unless, that is, you HAVE seen his collection and your attacks stem from your jealousy. That seems very likely the case.

--Bronty has sold many graded games both on eBay and privately for high prices. Much higher in some cases than any previous sale of the same title, ungraded or otherwise. Dan's been taking shit for years about sealed collecting. "Oh, he's that guy who spent 3K + a CIB on a sealed Stadium Events...what a dumbass." But I don't think anyone is questioning his choices now. If they are, their keeping it to themselves.

--TheGrayBox, JoFinn, pooch, and a couple others have a handful of graded games from time to time, but nothing consistant. Likely selling certain pieces of their collections to pay for others.....like evryone here in some form. They are all collectors and members of this community.

--Then we have Wormhole Collectibles. Ron is the ex-CEO of Cloud City Collectibles who deals in toys and now games. He DOES NOT have any vested interest in the community and does exactly what you complain about. On a small level. His expertise is toys and has for the most part failed at selling games but has a small loyal audience of sealed collectors.

--MegaStarEnt....I don't know them but it seems that everything they buy is resold so it's probably safe to assume they are simply resellers.

--And finally, Brians Toys aka Premier Video Games. Premier (and First Appearance Comics) is actually headed by Brian's younger brother, Joe Semling. They have been in the sealed toy business for 14 years and are notorious across all toy communities as the "plague of the industry". Countless threads on various toy forums go back years complaining of their business practices. And they are still here doing bigger business than ever. The complaining didn't make them disappear. The only thing that may give you comfort is the fact that they are completely ignorant to the world of games and many steals have occured as a result. They are not major players because their lack of knowledge keeps them from advancing in the market. Once they're sold out of games, it isn't very likely that they will be restocked.

The last three aren't collectors of games. They aren't interested in much other than turn around. They also aren't causing prices to skyrocket. So who's the problem here? A bunch of collectors selling some of their collectibles.....sounds like........just about everyone else on this forum.

Look. I'm not trying to persuade anyone into following what I do. I consider myself a private collector, which is why you don't see me posting a hundred pics of what I have. I collect graded games for MYSELF and no one else. I will continue to collect graded games. Any costs are justified by the person who pays it. In this case, me. For me. One more time.....I do it for ME. I don't care what you do. You can collect loose games. You can collect loose condom wrappers. You can eat a dick for all I care, and have fun doing it. Far be it from me to rain on your parade. I'll just never understand why others have to rain on mine.....



Edited: 03/01/2010 at 11:11 PM by MoeDown

Mar 1, 2010 at 10:59:40 PM
qixmaster (126)
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(Josh B) < Wiz's Mom >
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best.thread.ever.

-------------------------
eBay listings here

Mar 1, 2010 at 11:04:19 PM
the_wizard_666 (157)
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(The Fat Ninja) < Wiz's Mom >
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Originally posted by: qixmaster

best.thread.ever.



X2

-------------------------


"It's always amazing to me how some of the most worthless games from a gaming perspective tend to fetch outrageous amounts of money. But then again, it could be said that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I'm curious if the high bidder of the $873.04 Stadium Events (cart-only) realizes that it's nowhere nearly as rare as about 20+ games I can think of that sell for 1/10th that amount?  At any rate, I wanted to draw attention to this trend: if people say it's rare, it must be true, and therefore it must be had at any price."
-Dain Anderson, October 14, 2006
Originally posted by: kryptk33p3r

im used to dick jokes i get to see one everytime I pee

Mar 1, 2010 at 11:06:20 PM
dangevin (219)
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(Dan Langevin) < Wiz's Mom >
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^ Agreed, this is way better than the old VGA thread. Great job, all.

-------------------------


Mar 1, 2010 at 11:12:25 PM
snescentral (0)
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(Evan Gowan) < Eggplant Wizard >
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All I have to say is: remember Bio Force Ape.

Mar 1, 2010 at 11:23:16 PM
Robin Mihara (99)
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(Robin Mihara) < Bowser >
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Moedown, you waited a year to say hi?

-------------------------

www.ecstasyoforder.com...


Mar 1, 2010 at 11:25:46 PM
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Bronty (65)
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(Dan M) < Bonk >
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Originally posted by: MoeDown

Originally posted by: portnoyd

Originally posted by: MoeDown

Originally posted by: jonebone

1) Grading toys has absolutely nothing to do with video games.

It is easy to determine if a toy is sealed, either the bubble plastic is stuck to the cardboard or not.  Video games are much more complex. 

Oh yes, because there is no such thing as a resealed toy!!!???? It is obvious you have no knowledge of the sealed toy market and this comment shows that.

Video Games are 10 times easier to grade than a toy....


To jonebone's defense (I can hear Satan banging the thermostat wildly), why would he have any knowledge of the toy market? Mocking him for not having first has knowledge is ridiculous. His point stands: toy grading experience does not equal game grading experience. As I mentioned above to bunnyboy, while they may be experts in packaging, there is no way to tell if they are experts in game packaging as their business model is such a black box regarding their graders and their methodology.

Nextamundo!


With all due respect, Port,

When your first point in an argument against something is grossly inaccurate, it exposes your flawed reasoning and for me, negates your entire argument. Do you take financial advice from a bum on the street?

Originally posted by: jonebone

Stay tuned... I'll be making a lengthy post tomorrow with my proposed solution to this problem. I think I might actually get a lot of buy-in, though we'll need a community discussion to see if it is a practical idea.

I honestly can't wait to hear it. It should be very entertaining.

-------------------------------------------------

Even though I know this for a fact already, I just got off the phone with Tom Derby (CGA) for verification:

--VGA will never grade loose games.

--It has never been in their plans to grade loose games and it never will.

--In order to grade loose toys, the toy must be examined to work as it should. All parts assembled. All moving parts, tested. Thus any loose video game would have to be played....a service they neither have the time or knowledge to accomplish.

--CIB games will never be graded outside of what is already being graded, that is: new, complete, never used but not sealed.

--They will in the future authenticate (with the aid of a proto expert) and slab with no grade, any prototype games that may be submitted. I'm sure this will change the topic to "run for the hills, they're grading protos, our world is at an end" and "who do they think they are blah blah blah." but remember kids....I said authenticate not grade and I said with the aid of an expert not that they are the experts...

So, having put to rest the misconception that VGA wil someday affect the loose/CIB community, any further arguments siting that as a counter-point will be moot.

To the few naysayers.....what's your real problem? Or rather, who? There's only a handful of us VGA sellers on eBay so I can't help feel your attacks are directed at us specifically. So who the hell is it? You say sellers who get the games graded with the sole intention of reselling at a higher price, right? Well I'm calling everybody out. I'll go first:

--I'm bighedkingpin on eBay. I operate BigHedToyz, I have been an AFA dealer since 2004 and have submitted close to 5000 items for grading since then, including about 400 games. I collect sealed video games. I have about 500 games in my collection. The only ones not sealed are a bunch of Neo-Geo games (most of which are new, never played) and a BK:LE, also never played. That's my thing. That's what I do. New, extremely minty games are what makes me happy. I enjoy collecting immensely. More than half of my collection is graded and if it isn't, it will be soon. I've sold hundreds of graded games on eBay, and "oh my god!" all at a profit. I have a great collection to show for it and a 100% positive reputation on eBay for 6 years so obviously, my customers haven't felt ripped-off, or manipulated into paying for something they want...

--There's rarebucky. I don't know if you've seen pics of Adam's collection, but I have and it's quite impressive. To say he's not a collector is ludicrous. Unless, that is, you HAVE seen his collection and your attacks stem from your jealousy. That seems very likely the case.

--Bronty has sold many graded games both on eBay and privately for high prices. Much higher in some cases than any previous sale of the same title, ungraded or otherwise. Dan's been taking shit for years about sealed collecting. "Oh, he's that guy who spent 3K + a CIB on a sealed Stadium Events...what a dumbass." But I don't think anyone is questioning his choices now. If they are, their keeping it to themselves.

--TheGrayBox, JoFinn, pooch, and a couple others have a handful of graded games from time to time, but nothing consistant. Likely selling certain pieces of their collections to pay for others.....like evryone here in some form. They are all collectors and members of this community.

--Then we have Wormhole Collectibles. Ron is the ex-CEO of Cloud City Collectibles who deals in toys and now games. He DOES NOT have any vested interest in the community and does exactly what you complain about. On a small level. His expertise is toys and has for the most part failed at selling games but has a small loyal audience of sealed collectors.

--MegaStarEnt....I don't know them but it seems that everything they buy is resold so it's probably safe to assume they are simply resellers.

--And finally, Brians Toys aka Premier Video Games. Premier (and First Appearance Comics) is actually headed by Brian's younger brother, Joe Semling. They have been in the sealed toy business for 14 years and are notorious across all toy communities as the "plague of the industry". Countless threads on various toy forums go back years complaining of their business practices. And they are still here doing bigger business than ever. The complaining didn't make them disappear. The only thing that may give you comfort is the fact that they are completely ignorant to the world of games and many steals have occured as a result. They are not major players because their lack of knowledge keeps them from advancing in the market. Once they're sold out of games, it isn't very likely that they will be restocked.

The last three aren't collectors of games. They aren't interested in much other than turn around. They also aren't causing prices to skyrocket. So who's the problem here? A bunch of collectors selling some of their collectibles.....sounds like........just about everyone else on this forum.

Look. I'm not trying to persuade anyone into following what I do. I consider myself a private collector, which is why you don't see me posting a hundred pics of what I have. I collect graded games for MYSELF and no one else. I will continue to collect graded games. Any costs are justified by the person who pays it. In this case, me. For me. One more time.....I do it for ME. I don't care what you do. You can collect loose games. You can collect loose condom wrappers. You can eat a dick for all I care, and have fun doing it. Far be it from me to rain on your parade. I'll just never understand why others have to rain on mine.....



epic last paragraph!   funny and accurate

-------------------------

WTB Cdn sealed black boxes, sealed Cdn first party titles.    I.e. the "mattel" Cdn boxes with both french and english.   Mainly black boxes, zelda, link, and tyson, but let me know what you have.    I am interested in anything I don't already have!



Edited: 03/02/2010 at 01:58 AM by Bronty

Mar 2, 2010 at 7:30:27 AM
portnoyd (39)
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(Stephen Colbert) < Meka Chicken >
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Fyi, I fell asleep last night and woke up only to watch the last half hour of 24 (what a shitacular season...) and then promptly went back to bed. I don't think I'll ever catch up with replies so I'll probably do a half-assed condensed thing when I get home today. But I will say this, robin, going for the easy out of The Log Log, the world's foremost discussion of my bowel mov... didn't work so well for Zach Meston, so I'd avoid trying it in the future.

-------------------------
 

Mar 2, 2010 at 11:08:16 AM
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jonebone (527)
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Originally posted by: arch_8ngel

On the price side of the debate...how long SHOULD it take someone to accurately inspect, validate, and grade a game? Half an hour? An hour?

I'd be curious to know what people think regarding how long a thorough process should take...then relate that to the asking price to back out an hourly wage.

When you compare that with the cost of the case, these guys aren't exactly making a killing. (assuming they're taking the time to provide the service that they actually claim to be)

So should us resellers get paid when we answer price checks?  I sometimes spend 5-10 minutes of work and yet it's all free?  I've probably answered at least 300 to 500 threads so I should be due a paycheck right?

Of course not, I actually do it for the love of the hobby.  I do expect VGA graders to get paid for their time and effort but getting paid and price gouging are two different things.

Last point is the learning curve.  I can answer some price check threads with 50+ games in 2-3 minutes tops because I know the market well.  I'd like to think that VGA graders know exactly what to look for so they can go over a game much quicker than an average guy off the street.

-------------------------
WTB Sealed & CIB Mint Games!
NES - SNES - N64 - Sega Genesis - Turbografx 16

Now Playing: Mario Rabbids Kingdom (Switch)
My eBay 10% off on NintendoAge! 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/jonebone...=

Mar 2, 2010 at 11:29:47 AM
arch_8ngel (66)
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I just don't see how they're price gouging for their primary service.
It's pretty clear that their upcharge for comments is ridiculous, but the primary fee seems pretty reasonable for what they're doing and what you get as a result.

-------------------------
 

Mar 2, 2010 at 12:50:44 PM
Pat the NES Punk (23)
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(Patrick Contri) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: nesguy

I think for all the naysayers that pop in here who only collect CIB/loose games, to them VGA is a threat because they might collect sealed games someday.  VGA makes this potentially much more expensive, and so they hate it for the possibility of making their lives more difficult.  Why else would you hate something that somebody else does?  Either that, or they're just trolling for the sake of it.  .


Maybe some just dislike the fact that grading/reselling graded games moves the hobby/scene more and more away from being something based upon the game playing experience and more towards cold, hard business. I'm not sure why that is a difficult point to understand, regardless of whether or not others agree with it. 

But VGA a "threat"? Seriously? I personally don't care if I ever own another sealed game in my life, and I'm even taken aback at times by the amount of boxed games I've gathered over the years. I consider myself both a gamer and a collector, but I fall on the gamer's side where I personally view sealed games as a waste. It's like being a huge fan of ice cream, buying a nice pint of Ben & Jerry's (Chunky Monkey ftw), and then leaving it untouched in your freezer just to stare at it.


Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Your "old days" also do not apply here, because a sealed game is already something that isn't to be played.


Is this meant to be a "Nintendo Commandment"? Did Howard Phillips inscribe that on a stone tablet somewhere?  Do we forget that almost every Nintendo game was sealed at one point, and that it had to be unsealed (the horror!) in order to enjoy the goodness residing inside? 

Tearing off that outer wrapping as a kid was almost a natural high of anticipation for what was soon in store. I think we sometimes forget what that feeling really meant.

-------------------------
--------------------------------
twitter: patthenespunk
facebook - Pat the NES Punk

thepunkeffect.com

Mar 2, 2010 at 12:51:09 PM
BeaglePuss (41)
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(Matt Nolan) < Bowser >
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Originally posted by: MoeDown

--They will in the future authenticate (with the aid of a proto expert) and slab with no grade, any prototype games that may be submitted. I'm sure this will change the topic to "run for the hills, they're grading protos, our world is at an end" and "who do they think they are blah blah blah." but remember kids....I said authenticate not grade and I said with the aid of an expert not that they are the experts...


Interesting.

Do you have any idea as to who they'd be looking for as far as an expert is concerned?  I would be interested to know.  I would think that there are fewer than a handful of potential candidates in the US that are worthy of the expert moniker, and of those I'm not sure how many would be able to commit to such a job.

I don't know how much of a demand there will be for such a service.  The reason being that most prototype collectors themselves appear to be experts (or near to it).  I can't imagine someone like Dream or DRX sending off their prototypes to be verified (although I can't speak for them of course).

What I can say is that it would certainly help legitimize my hobby and hopefully bring in new interested parties.  Once these things are slabbed and authenticated, I'm sure the demand for prototypes would increase substantially.  Sure this would mean added competition when it comes to acquiring new prototypes, but it would also (potentially) increase the value of the prototypes that I already own.  Interesting. . .








Mar 2, 2010 at 12:59:55 PM
bunnyboy (81)
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(Funktastic B) < Bowser >
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Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Maybe some just dislike the fact that grading/reselling graded games moves the hobby/scene more and more away from being something based upon the game playing experience and more towards cold, hard business. I'm not sure why that is a difficult point to understand, regardless of whether or not others agree with it. 

These are sealed games, they are already not a playing experience.  VGA does not affect that aspect at all.  Even many (most?) CIB collectors do not play their games.  I have a separate cart only set, and a PowerPak, and emulators for actually playing.

Who will be the first to have a "used" sealed set where they personally opened every game?  I bet in 8 years when Bronty still needs 2 games he will go insane and do it.  

Mar 2, 2010 at 1:10:43 PM
maximus_clean (145)
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(Curtis S) < King Solomon >
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Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Originally posted by: nesguy

I think for all the naysayers that pop in here who only collect CIB/loose games, to them VGA is a threat because they might collect sealed games someday.  VGA makes this potentially much more expensive, and so they hate it for the possibility of making their lives more difficult.  Why else would you hate something that somebody else does?  Either that, or they're just trolling for the sake of it.  .


Maybe some just dislike the fact that grading/reselling graded games moves the hobby/scene more and more away from being something based upon the game playing experience and more towards cold, hard business. I'm not sure why that is a difficult point to understand, regardless of whether or not others agree with it. 

But VGA a "threat"? Seriously? I personally don't care if I ever own another sealed game in my life, and I'm even taken aback at times by the amount of boxed games I've gathered over the years. I consider myself both a gamer and a collector, but I fall on the gamer's side where I personally view sealed games as a waste. It's like being a huge fan of ice cream, buying a nice pint of Ben & Jerry's (Chunky Monkey ftw), and then leaving it untouched in your freezer just to stare at it.




It's hard to understand because 97.348798% of the games will still be $2 - $5. How does that change the hobby from being based on gameplay experiece? It doesn't. So a Flintstones 2 or Stadium events cart going for $1k+ doesn't change the hobby? Either way you look at it, the higher end items are out of reach for a lot of people, with or without the VGA, this doesn't change anything except maybe the sealed market, which you admited you will never be a part of. Does no one read comics to simply enjoy them now that some comics go for $1 million?  retarded.

Sealed games are a waste? sure, that's your point of view. Personally, I view recording a review of a video game in my spare time a monumental waste.


-------------------------
Looking for VGA NES, SNES and more, have cash and many VGA to trade!

 

Mar 2, 2010 at 1:11:01 PM
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jonebone (527)
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

These are sealed games, they are already not a playing experience.  VGA does not affect that aspect at all.  Even many (most?) CIB collectors do not play their games.  I have a separate cart only set, and a PowerPak, and emulators for actually playing.

Who will be the first to have a "used" sealed set where they personally opened every game?  I bet in 8 years when Bronty still needs 2 games he will go insane and do it.  

Not to derail, but I don't agree with the CIB statement at all.  All of my CIB copies for any game, no matter how minty, are up for playing.  I don't buy into the whole "you risk damage by opening it" argument, because you risk just as much damage when you open up a CIB to take pictures in a for sale thread.  Now my favorite games, I get a sealed copy to go with the CIB

And we do have a "Post your sealed contents" thread so people still are opening them.  I'd love to open one to add to the thread but only if I got the sealed game for the price of a CIB...



-------------------------
WTB Sealed & CIB Mint Games!
NES - SNES - N64 - Sega Genesis - Turbografx 16

Now Playing: Mario Rabbids Kingdom (Switch)
My eBay 10% off on NintendoAge! 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/jonebone...=


Edited: 03/02/2010 at 01:12 PM by jonebone

Mar 2, 2010 at 1:13:27 PM
removed-07-06-2016 (214)

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Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Maybe some just dislike the fact that grading/reselling graded games moves the hobby/scene more and more away from being something based upon the game playing experience and more towards cold, hard business. I'm not sure why that is a difficult point to understand, regardless of whether or not others agree with it. 

But VGA a "threat"? Seriously? I personally don't care if I ever own another sealed game in my life, and I'm even taken aback at times by the amount of boxed games I've gathered over the years. I consider myself both a gamer and a collector, but I fall on the gamer's side where I personally view sealed games as a waste. It's like being a huge fan of ice cream, buying a nice pint of Ben & Jerry's (Chunky Monkey ftw), and then leaving it untouched in your freezer just to stare at it.


Given the length and consistency of my post, in addition to the grammatical accuracy of my statements, I'm a little taken aback that you would assume I have a mental incapacity to perceive the point you are here restating.  The fact of the matter is instead this: I saw the point you bring up as a possibility, and rejected it as false for the arguments laid out in my earlier post and for the following additional reasons.  You have several interesting points, but I see a couple of flaws in the arguments here.  For one, as much as we video game companies produce a product that the consumer finds enjoyable, video games have always been cold, hard business.  As certain segments of the gaming community (not referring to the collecting community at this juncture) have grown an affinity towards their favorite video game businesses, there have developed in recent years what I would call "warm-fuzzies" in the business field, where protraying yourself as anything but a cold, hard business is good business.  I'm thinking here of Blizzard, as an example, who panders to their fans with development videos, conventions, and the licensing of their product to every schmuck who can think of a use for it to create a veritable cult for their products.  It's very good business to do this.  That doesn't remove the fact that video games at their root are just that, business. 

So, with that in mind, a perpetuation of this business element to some degree into the collecting community doesn't strike me as being overly impossible, or even negative.  I would challenge you, instead, to find me a hobby or two that has its roots in the commercial realm that does not have a commercial aspect within the hobby itself now. 

Additionally, given your Ben & Jerry reference, I feel the need to bring up the fact that there are indeed collecting communities that exist for several consumable items, most notably within in the form of cans and bottles.  Beer cans, soda cans, bottles of various beverages are all collectible.  One needs only to enter your local antique shop to see evidence of this.  It should be noted that many collectors prefer to collect these items with the drink still inside, especially in the case of bottle collectors where there is less chance of the (potentially) acidic drink inside affecting the outer collectible container.  Most of these collectors do not acquire these items for the sake of opening them and drinking the flat, stale contents inside, but for some intrinsic collectible element to the objects themselves.  They are bought for, as you say "just to stare at".  This does not mean that they begrudge people who regularly purchase soda and beer to open and consume, nor would I assume people who drink beverages on a daily basis begrudge somebody else their hobby, whether they understand the appeal of it or not.  To state my point more concisely, sealed collecting should probably be considered a different hobby (to a point) from general game collecting.  Sealed collectors do not begrudge those who open and play games (even old ones), so neither should those who fall on the other side of the fence begrudge those who keep games as collectibles never to be played their hobby.


Edited: 03/02/2010 at 01:18 PM by removed-07-06-2016

Mar 2, 2010 at 1:18:39 PM
MrMark0673 (448)
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(Mark Nolan) < Master Higgins >
Posts: 7824 - Joined: 02/20/2007
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Originally posted by: BeaglePuss

Originally posted by: MoeDown

--They will in the future authenticate (with the aid of a proto expert) and slab with no grade, any prototype games that may be submitted. I'm sure this will change the topic to "run for the hills, they're grading protos, our world is at an end" and "who do they think they are blah blah blah." but remember kids....I said authenticate not grade and I said with the aid of an expert not that they are the experts...


Do you have any idea as to who they'd be looking for as far as an expert is concerned?  I would be interested to know.  I would think that there are fewer than a handful of potential candidates in the US that are worthy of the expert moniker, and of those I'm not sure how many would be able to commit to such a job.


x2.  Could you give us a little more information Moe, I'm very curious as to what they have planned.

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Hi, my name is Mark, and I collect (and now sell!) Prototypes.
 
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Mar 2, 2010 at 2:22:22 PM
the_wizard_666 (157)
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(The Fat Ninja) < Wiz's Mom >
Posts: 11676 - Joined: 10/12/2006
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Originally posted by: bunnyboy

Originally posted by: Pat the NES Punk

Maybe some just dislike the fact that grading/reselling graded games moves the hobby/scene more and more away from being something based upon the game playing experience and more towards cold, hard business. I'm not sure why that is a difficult point to understand, regardless of whether or not others agree with it. 

These are sealed games, they are already not a playing experience.  VGA does not affect that aspect at all.  Even many (most?) CIB collectors do not play their games.  I have a separate cart only set, and a PowerPak, and emulators for actually playing.

Who will be the first to have a "used" sealed set where they personally opened every game?  I bet in 8 years when Bronty still needs 2 games he will go insane and do it.  

Aren't the games Bronty still needs games that haven't turned up sealed yet?  Until they do, couldn't it be safely assumed that he would have a complete set of known sealed releases?  So until such time as those games are actually found sealed, I doubt we'll see him do that...although I would love for him to open his Stadium Events now, seeing as he can make money selling off the CIB copy he is left with


-------------------------


"It's always amazing to me how some of the most worthless games from a gaming perspective tend to fetch outrageous amounts of money. But then again, it could be said that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I'm curious if the high bidder of the $873.04 Stadium Events (cart-only) realizes that it's nowhere nearly as rare as about 20+ games I can think of that sell for 1/10th that amount?  At any rate, I wanted to draw attention to this trend: if people say it's rare, it must be true, and therefore it must be had at any price."
-Dain Anderson, October 14, 2006
Originally posted by: kryptk33p3r

im used to dick jokes i get to see one everytime I pee

Mar 2, 2010 at 5:27:39 PM
startyde (3)
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(Jon P) < Crack Trooper >
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VGA is another evolution of "thrill of the chase" for collectors. Step one, try and find a rare game in amazing condition. Step two, try and get the highest graded copy ever found. It's fun, in that rediculously expensive way. But that's how serious sealed game collectors roll.

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Edited: 03/02/2010 at 05:28 PM by startyde

Mar 2, 2010 at 8:06:30 PM
dangevin (219)
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(Dan Langevin) < Wiz's Mom >
Posts: 12129 - Joined: 08/17/2006
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Originally posted by: startyde

VGA is another evolution of "thrill of the chase" for collectors. Step one, try and find a rare game in amazing condition. Step two, try and get the highest graded copy ever found. It's fun, in that rediculously expensive way. But that's how serious sealed game collectors roll.


I agree, but the point of contention isn't that collectors want the mintiest copies. It's whether VGA should be responsible, or even recognized, as the authority here.

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Mar 2, 2010 at 9:41:38 PM
Pat the NES Punk (23)
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(Patrick Contri) < Meka Chicken >
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Originally posted by: maximus_clean

It's hard to understand because 97.348798% of the games will still be $2 - $5. How does that change the hobby from being based on gameplay experiece? It doesn't. So a Flintstones 2 or Stadium events cart going for $1k+ doesn't change the hobby? Either way you look at it, the higher end items are out of reach for a lot of people, with or without the VGA, this doesn't change anything except maybe the sealed market, which you admited you will never be a part of. Does no one read comics to simply enjoy them now that some comics go for $1 million?  retarded.

Sealed games are a waste? sure, that's your point of view. Personally, I view recording a review of a video game in my spare time a monumental waste.


Maxxy, my dear, sweet friend.

It's the theory/mindset of what's behind slabbing/grading sealed games that bothers me (and others) more than the scope of its practice. Whether or not it's 20% or 1% games doesn't change my opinion on the matter. And please, please search out my long-winded analysis of how collecting silver age/golden age comic books cannot truly be compared to collecting video games, as much as many collectors so wish it upon a star in order to "legitimize the hobby" (whatever that really means). Apples and oranges, especially when it comes to grading.

And thanks, I realize my opinion is my point of view (sharp). Yes, I'd be the first to tell you that reviewing games is also waste. But hey, a couple of people somehow get a kick out of it every now and then.

Originally posted by: NES guy

Given the length and consistency of my post, in addition to the grammatical accuracy of my statements, I'm a little taken aback that you would assume I have a mental incapacity to perceive the point you are here restating.  The fact of the matter is instead this: I saw the point you bring up as a possibility, and rejected it as false for the arguments laid out in my earlier post and for the following additional reasons.  You have several interesting points, but I see a couple of flaws in the arguments here. 

I'll stop right there, being that you have ignored me challenging your very reaching "people are threatened by VGA" argument. I'm not trying to direct this at you personally, but the bottom line is: thinking everyone who doesn't like the idea of VGA because they feel threatened reeks of pretension and a non-understanding on how the majority view video game collecting (not sure where the "mental incapacity" line stems from).

Naturally, we all have different views of what the "spirit" of video game collecting is and where "business" plays a part in all of it... the difference is that I won't try to lay out an argument about why I think yours is wrong (silly Ben & Jerry's jokes aside), because arguing someone's views on what collecting should be is like arguing someone's faith toward a religion; it goes around and around but in the end it's up to the individual to decide what it is to them. To me, it doesn't make sense, but to you, it's fine, and that's cool. I can accept it even if I don't agree.

Originally posted by: NES guy

To state my point more concisely, sealed collecting should probably be considered a different hobby (to a point) from general game collecting.

Well we agree there.

Honestly, I'm not trying to bash sealed collectors (I'd rather bash seals - ha!), but this is an ANTI-VGA thread after all, and there is naturally overlap between the two entities. You cannot have one without the other.

-------------------------
--------------------------------
twitter: patthenespunk
facebook - Pat the NES Punk

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Mar 2, 2010 at 10:04:01 PM
MoeDown (71)
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(big hed) < El Ripper >
Posts: 1423 - Joined: 06/06/2008
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Originally posted by: MrMark0673

Originally posted by: BeaglePuss

Originally posted by: MoeDown

--They will in the future authenticate (with the aid of a proto expert) and slab with no grade, any prototype games that may be submitted. I'm sure this will change the topic to "run for the hills, they're grading protos, our world is at an end" and "who do they think they are blah blah blah." but remember kids....I said authenticate not grade and I said with the aid of an expert not that they are the experts...


Do you have any idea as to who they'd be looking for as far as an expert is concerned?  I would be interested to know.  I would think that there are fewer than a handful of potential candidates in the US that are worthy of the expert moniker, and of those I'm not sure how many would be able to commit to such a job.


x2.  Could you give us a little more information Moe, I'm very curious as to what they have planned.

I only talked to Tom for a minute last night, re: grading loose games. I was lucky to get him at his house. He mentioned the possibility of authenticating protos sometime down the road. I instantly thought of Matt & Mark. Besides you and Dream, who else is there? Niels? But he's not U.S.

Anyway, Tom is out of the office for the rest of the week, but I would be more than happy to forward your contact information directly to him so that he could get in touch with you guys when he returns. He'd be the one who could answer any questions you may have. Shoot me a pm,


Mar 2, 2010 at 10:05:10 PM
the_wizard_666 (157)
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(The Fat Ninja) < Wiz's Mom >
Posts: 11676 - Joined: 10/12/2006
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You forgot Hakan, or has he got out of protos? Not US either, but he'd be another candidate.

-------------------------


"It's always amazing to me how some of the most worthless games from a gaming perspective tend to fetch outrageous amounts of money. But then again, it could be said that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I'm curious if the high bidder of the $873.04 Stadium Events (cart-only) realizes that it's nowhere nearly as rare as about 20+ games I can think of that sell for 1/10th that amount?  At any rate, I wanted to draw attention to this trend: if people say it's rare, it must be true, and therefore it must be had at any price."
-Dain Anderson, October 14, 2006
Originally posted by: kryptk33p3r

im used to dick jokes i get to see one everytime I pee